Close

    • Dual (port and direct) fuel injection will make the new Audi 2.5 TFSI turbo I5 the most tuner friendly iteration yet

      VAG (Volkswagen Auto Group) is doing a fantastic job incorporating dual injection systems in performance cars. The Lamborghini Huracan and Audi R8 5.2 liter V10 for example feature both port and direct fuel injection systems. The same can be said for the new W12 Bentley motor.


      Well, the new 400 horsepower Audi 2.5 TFSI I5 also features a dual fuel injection system:

      Quote Originally Posted by Audi
      In addition to its power output, Audi’s five-cylinder engine is known for its firing order and sound. The 1-2-4-5-3 ignition sequence produces a special rhythm and a distinct engine note that can be controlled by opening the flaps of the standard RS exhaust system. Additionally, a new dual-injection fuel system combines the benefits of indirect and direct injection and uses an intelligent engine management control unit to help optimize fuel injection and distribution based on engine load.
      This is great news for those who want to tune the MKIII Audi TT-RS and the upcoming Audi RS3 sedan.

      Motors featuring direct injection only run into fuel system issues pretty quickly when increasing power. Especially if using ethanol as fuel.

      What do most people do when they encounter fuel system limitations? They add injectors. In this case, Audi already did the work for you.

      The ECU will likely pose a problem but tuners will have it cracked quickly and once they do, the sky is the limit with the incredible 2.5 TFSI.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Dual (port and direct) fuel injection will make the new Audi 2.5 TFSI turbo I5 the most tuner friendly iteration yet started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 26 Comments
      1. Arin@APR's Avatar
        Arin@APR -
        The ECU is MED17, so it's easy. In. Tune soon!
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Arin@APR Click here to enlarge
        The ECU is MED17, so it's easy. In. Tune soon!
        There we go. Let the games begin.
      1. subaru335i's Avatar
        subaru335i -
        That is cool. The FRS/BRZ had a similar system but it didn't really make it any better for tuning. Im sure this motor is better than the FA20
      1. jyamona@motiv's Avatar
        jyamona@motiv -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Arin@APR Click here to enlarge
        The ECU is MED17, so it's easy. In. Tune soon!
        Which of the new Audi's are using the MDG1 Bosch stuff?
      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -
        Thank you Sticky and APR! the advantages of the RS3 are numerous and the dual injection and easy to tune ECU just add to the list.....might be one of the best tuner cars ever!

        Quattro AWD (the newer haldex systems respond faster than ever before)
        2.5TFSI an engine with racing history behind it and that intoxicating sound (after all its I5 is half a V10!)
        Easy MED17 ECU to tune
        Turbo kits already available (The new RS3's engine is slightly improved version of the existing TTRS engine)
        Dual injection, port injection cleans carbon build up, and its easier to add upgraded pumps and injectors
        DCT transmission: DQ500 (stronger than DQ250 in golfR/S3, but upgrades still available, Dodson, SSP, etc.)
        Practical Sedan, room for 4 adults.
        3,593lbs (not lightweight but not that heavy either) similar weight to F80 M3 (trades size for AWD)
        $55K MSRP, not that expensive for what you get....see above

        I expect 9's and some runway wins pretty quick from this platform....
      1. SVP03's Avatar
        SVP03 -
        Im am happy for my TT RS Roadster for this year.
        But i mis the sound of the V10, that is next year.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bowser330 Click here to enlarge
        Thank you Sticky and APR! the advantages of the RS3 are numerous and the dual injection and easy to tune ECU just add to the list.....might be one of the best tuner cars ever!

        Quattro AWD (the newer haldex systems respond faster than ever before)
        2.5TFSI an engine with racing history behind it and that intoxicating sound (after all its I5 is half a V10!)
        Easy MED17 ECU to tune
        Turbo kits already available (The new RS3's engine is slightly improved version of the existing TTRS engine)
        Dual injection, port injection cleans carbon build up, and its easier to add upgraded pumps and injectors
        DCT transmission: DQ500 (stronger than DQ250 in golfR/S3, but upgrades still available, Dodson, SSP, etc.)
        Practical Sedan, room for 4 adults.
        3,593lbs (not lightweight but not that heavy either) similar weight to F80 M3 (trades size for AWD)
        $55K MSRP, not that expensive for what you get....see above

        I expect 9's and some runway wins pretty quick from this platform....
        It's going to be really strong on the street. Matching up from a light won't be fun for whatever doesn't have Quattro.
      1. Arin@APR's Avatar
        Arin@APR -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jyamona@motiv Click here to enlarge
        Which of the new Audi's are using the MDG1 Bosch stuff?
        Out of the engines that people care about:

        2.0T EA888 Gen 3 (Miler Cycle) Transverse (Like FWD A3 8V5)
        2.0T EA888 Gen 3 (Miller Cycle) Longitudinal (Like some B9 A4)
        2.9T EA839 (Like B9 RS5)
        3.0T EA839 (Like B9 S4/S5)
      1. Arin@APR's Avatar
        Arin@APR -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bowser330 Click here to enlarge
        Easy MED17 ECU to tune
        To clarify "Easy": The "tuning" is still very complex. If you want a good tune someone can use all year long, drive all over the country, and just work, it takes a very long time and a bunch of beta testing. As for "easy", I simply mean we're able to read / write / log as it's based on an architecture used in the past. It's not 100% plug-and-play though, meaning we do have to update routines in our tool to make it all work, and then we have to figure out where all the maps and memory addresses are, and how they work together (which will be similar to other platforms though).

        Conversely the new B9 is "hard" because we can't even begin to read / write to the ECU. That will take a while to crack.
      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Arin@APR Click here to enlarge
        To clarify "Easy": The "tuning" is still very complex. If you want a good tune someone can use all year long, drive all over the country, and just work, it takes a very long time and a bunch of beta testing. As for "easy", I simply mean we're able to read / write / log as it's based on an architecture used in the past. It's not 100% plug-and-play though, meaning we do have to update routines in our tool to make it all work, and then we have to figure out where all the maps and memory addresses are, and how they work together (which will be similar to other platforms though).

        Conversely the new B9 is "hard" because we can't even begin to read / write to the ECU. That will take a while to crack.
        I think I speak for most non-computer programming people when I say, thank you for your complex work in preparing the software for these platforms. We know its not easy.

        And even if you are not a customer of APR, you have to concede that APR pushing the envelope and getting tunes out soon makes other vendors, maybe your vendor, churn out products so its a benefit to the marketplace.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bowser330 Click here to enlarge
        I think I speak for most non-computer programming people when I say, thank you for your complex work in preparing the software for these platforms. We know its not easy.

        And even if you are not a customer of APR, you have to concede that APR pushing the envelope and getting tunes out soon makes other vendors, maybe your vendor, churn out products so its a benefit to the marketplace.
        Arin has been very helpful sharing info and participating in the community in general.

        I think many of these APR guys just genuinely like cars and tuning.
      1. gaspam's Avatar
        gaspam -
        the RS3 keeps looking better and better to me.... its between RS3 and new E63s for what i am going to replace my W212 e63s..... definitely leaning more towards RS3 as tuning market is just so much better for audi than MB
      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gaspam Click here to enlarge
        the RS3 keeps looking better and better to me.... its between RS3 and new E63s for what i am going to replace my W212 e63s..... definitely leaning more towards RS3 as tuning market is just so much better for audi than MB
        Anyone know how to get the RS3 to sound like this....
        http://www.boostaddict.com/content.p...S850-turbo-kit

      1. gaspam's Avatar
        gaspam -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bowser330 Click here to enlarge
        Anyone know how to get the RS3 to sound like this....
        http://www.boostaddict.com/content.p...S850-turbo-kit

        https://youtu.be/wUsDqzeSgms
        probably by getting the same IMS850 kit Click here to enlarge revs at about 33 sec

      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -
        Edit: silly me, its rpm that creates that high pitched exhaust note....so anyone know whats needed to get 9000rpm out of a 2.5TFSI? cams? ported heads? valve springs? rods/pistons? all of the above and more?
      1. gaspam's Avatar
        gaspam -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bowser330 Click here to enlarge
        Edit: silly me, its rpm that creates that high pitched exhaust note....so anyone know whats needed to get 9000rpm out of a 2.5TFSI? cams? ported heads? valve springs? rods/pistons? all of the above and more?
        from iroz :

        cams/retainers. We love the Schrick profiles TTRS/RS3 Schrick Camshafts with the larger HPFP lobe for added fuel flow. The profiles are also fantastic for this turbo and it's ability to breath at 8000 rpm. Added bonus is a brutal idle sound. TTRS/RS3/07k Valve Spring Kit with Ti Retainers are also a good idea for pushing the engine to 8000 rpm.

        Rods/pistons recommended for any tune above 500wtq
      1. subaru335i's Avatar
        subaru335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gaspam Click here to enlarge
        from iroz :

        cams/retainers. We love the Schrick profiles TTRS/RS3 Schrick Camshafts with the larger HPFP lobe for added fuel flow. The profiles are also fantastic for this turbo and it's ability to breath at 8000 rpm. Added bonus is a brutal idle sound. TTRS/RS3/07k Valve Spring Kit with Ti Retainers are also a good idea for pushing the engine to 8000 rpm.

        Rods/pistons recommended for any tune above 500wtq
        Starts to get expensive real fast. Id rather get an E63s and just do simple bolt ons/tune and have more power.
        Small engines can def make big power but Ill take bigger displacement any day now.
      1. gaspam's Avatar
        gaspam -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by subaru335i Click here to enlarge
        Starts to get expensive real fast. Id rather get an E63s and just do simple bolt ons/tune and have more power.
        Small engines can def make big power but Ill take bigger displacement any day now.
        trust me i thought that way too, I have the current E63s and we have seen plenty of 750-860 whp builds out there and still cant break 10.3/138 and to get to those numbers you are talking ~20K build (never forget the MB tuner tax : )..... also keep in mind only 1 person has got to 10.3.... next closest is 10.6 and its the same guy Click here to enlarge after that 10.7/137 is best and you get to pay the renntech price of $25K for that turbo kit.... after that is AMS 10.8/135 and still about $20K build

        dont make the mistake that a lot of us AMG guys made thinking it will be "easy" to get in the 10's lol.... a lot of us with the current W212 E63s has been disappointed, from tuning perspective.... meanwhile M5's and RS7's are running low 10's on stock turbos

        you will be able get same power for cheaper build on the 2.5TSFI and run mid 9s/ ~145...... not to mention the rs3 starts off ~50K cheaper to begin with Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gaspam Click here to enlarge
        We love the Schrick profiles TTRS/RS3 Schrick Camshafts
        Wasn't there someone telling me anyone can do cams for these German cars?

        Weird it is consistently Schrick delivering the highest performance cams...
      1. gaspam's Avatar
        gaspam -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Wasn't there someone telling me anyone can do cams for these German cars?

        Weird it is consistently Schrick delivering the highest performance cams...
        not me, I think that was someone on that N54 thread that hit the 869whp mark on Schrick cams...

        Im a fan as Schrick cams are the Sh$t for our german cars